So This Is How A YA Novel Reads

Avalon High was a cute but strange read for me. I never read any "young adult" novels when I was in middle school or high school, so I had no clue what this was going to be like.
Every chapter of the book has a piece of the original "Lady of Shallot" at the beginning. Do you think that the excerpts were actually helpful in piecing together what was going on in the story, or was it just kind of there?

Discussion Questions: Avalon High

What are some of the parallels between Will's character in Avalon High, and Arthur from what we know from previous readings?

What chivalric qualities does Will display that remind us of Arthur?

Arthur's Unknown

After spending this whole course learning about Arthur and his people what is surprised you the most about this book?

Who really is Elle?

Obviously, we went into the book knowing that it was another story of King Arthur. While you were reading it was there any points in the book that you did not believe that Elaine was Lady of Shallot and was a different character from the mythic tales? Who did you think they were and what gave you that inclination? 

What's Going on Inside Morgaine's Head?

In "The Mists of Avalon," Morgaine is pretty much in love with Lancelot throughout the entire story. About halfway through the story Lancelot decides that he won't "trespass" and take her virginity and she fills with happiness for the first time since she was a child. First of all, what a life to live. Haven't been happy for the past couple YEARS?? Nice... Moving on to the actual question I'm getting at is how exactly does Morgaine go from being dizzy whenever Lancelot looks at her to "in that molten instant she actually longed for death" (Bradley, 158)? Not only does she long for death, but when walking with Lancelot and Guinivere she was also "tempted to lead them both into the impassable mire...lead them out there and lead them to drown or wander forever in the mists."(Bradley,158) That's pretty freaking dark. Now I get that apparently when Lancelot looks at Guinivere there's nothing but love in his eyes, in fact the love that he just showed Morgaine, but come on. How good is she at reading eye balls because I certainly don't see true love in anyone's eyes I look at (weird). I guess what I'm trying to ask here is just how Morgaine went from loving to Lancelot to wanting to kill both him and Guinivere. I get that they had a "deep and meaningful conversation" (they didn't), but not sure how the story ends with her leaving as a walking omen of death. 

Warning not to fight

In Arthur's vision from Sir Gawain, he tells him not to go into battle as it will cost him his life. Why do you think that Arthur still gave the order to fight as soon as a sword was unsheathed? Do you think that it was actually an accident that the sword was unsheathed or do you think that it was a ruse from Modred to pressure Arthur into a battle?

Wine and War

Did Modred set up Arthur saying they were going to sign a treaty?

So... what are we fighting for?

"There is no excuse for war, none whatever, and whatever the wrong which your nation might be doing to mine -short of war- my nation would be in the wrong if it started a war so as to redress it." (White 233).  

I had no clue such progressive ideas would come up in King Arthur! This is making me wonder what kind of a role does Merlin play in this tale with King Arthur? What is he teaching him? And why is it so important?

Dumb Boy Becomes Genius in Two Seconds

So Arthur is described early in the story as having "fair hair and a stupid face, or at any rate there was a lack of cunning in it" (Malory, 221). The author then envelopes us in a story of a condescending Merlyn who calls everything Arthur says wrong. To revise this Merlyn, naturally, tells Arthur he needs to think more. A mere day later Arthur has the ideas of The Knights of the Round Table, the need to recruit knights young to mold them, and understands the morality of war and peace. My question is not as much how could Arthur just come up with these ideas but why would the author make it seem as if these thoughts were plopped in Arthur's head?

The "Great" Holy Grail Quest

I always thought that the Holy Grail Quest was the epitome of all quests. In this story it does not seem that way. Is it just me or does this quest seem quite underwhelming. What do you think? Is this how you expected the quest to be introduced or could it have been presented in a different way?

The Future is... bright?

"What is confounding me," exclaimed the magician, pulling out his hair in tuffs, "is that I can't remember whether it is in the future or in the past." (White 285)

In The Once and Future King, Merlin has the ability to know the future and what is to come. What benefit to the story do you think Merlin knowing the future adds?

Did.. did I enjoy this reading?

"Once and Future King" is definitely written in a style I as a reader am more familiar with and therefore enjoy much more. (Of course, it was written mid 20th century, so it is much more modern than the other works). I really did enjoy this story more; there was actual character development! And also some great quotes. Below are several quotes I quite enjoyed from "Once and Future King":

"He had fair hair and a stupid face, or at any rate there was a lack of cunning in it" (221)

- LOL. Reminds me of the Camelot episode we watched; that Arthur definitely meets these descriptions

"It is nothing. I am due to fall in love with a girl named Nimue in a short time, and then she learns my spells and locks me in a cave for several centuries. It is one of those things which are going to happen" (224)

- This quote seems so self-aware at the arbitrary nature events that happen in these stories and I LOVE it.

"Then we must have a round table, with no top" (265)

- I love to see the origins of such iconic aspects of the Arthur's story developed in a comical, almost again arbitrary way; it makes the story more relatable in the sense? and makes me feel closer to Arthur actually. I enjoyed this whole conversation about the logistics of the round table.


"Remind me to warn you about Guinevere another time" (266)

-Oof

"There is a thing about time and space which the philosopher Einstein is going to find out" (286)

-This right here is pretty funny. White took advantage of the fact that he is writing about Merlyn a while in the 'future', so he can actually make Merlin refer to things that will happen.

"This idea was in the hearts of the young men who knelt before the God-distributing bishops-- knowing that the odds were three to one, and that their own warm bodies might be cold at sunset" (298)

-It is this type of writing that really makes this story so much more enjoyable for me; slightly poetic, referring back to the beginning of the chapter with the bishops, contemplating real-life worries, thus humbling the story itself.. Good job White. This is good stuff.

I really enjoyed this reading, so my question is, did you (the class) also
enjoy it more? Why or why not? I am very curious about how every one else felt about it compared to the others we have read.

Who really is Launcelot?

Why is it so important for Launcelot to keep his identity hidden?

Would you have waited?

In the poem, the Lady of Shallot waits until she sees Lancelot to finally leave and test her curse. Since she did not know what her curse was would you have waited that long before leaving? Would you have left for someone that is most likely the most sought after man or would you have gone for someone that was more attainable? Why do you think she choose that time to finally leave?

So, Ya'll Didn't Recognize Lancelot?

I have several questions surrounding this reading, but there thing in this story that simply makes no sense. How in the world did Arthur and the rest of the Knights fail to recognize Lancelot?!
Lancelot disguised himself with different armor, a new shield, and with a red token that he received from Elaine. As long as he was silent, and stayed out of a fight, he wouldn't be recognized. But when he and Lavayne went into the tournament, King Arthur and the rest of the Knights of the Round Table somehow failed to pick up on Lancelot's fighting style. Even when He was asked who he was, no one was able to the voice as Lancelot's. That makes no sense at all.

What's in a Name?

In both "Knight of the Cart" and "Lady of Astolat," there is an element of namelessness. Why is it that Lancelot does not want to reveal his name? Is it because, according to Sir Gawain, he is "the greatest knight living" (464), and he has an ego? Or, does he want to hide his "celebrity status," as seems to be his reason for wearing Elaine's token (459)?

What are we supposed to believe?

We talked about what we think is history versus legends in an earlier discussion. While reading Arthur's part in the History of the Kings of Britain, what does Geoffrey of Monmouth intend to be history, and what does he intend to be more of a "legend". Does he want readers to believe every word he writes?

Prose Merlin

At the beginning of the passage of Merlins birth it is said that Merlin has the body given to him from the devil and the mind and soul given from God. A point is brought up that Merlin will have to choose which path to go down(the devils or God). However, right after his birth he is baptized, by doing this did it affect his decision or was his decision already made for him by baptizing him?

Clueless much?

Why is the all knowing Merlin portrayed as being so clueless with the Lady of the Lake?

"When she heard that he would come with her, she felt struck to the quick, because she hated no on else so much as Merlin" (Robert de Boron 363).

The Role of Religion

In our readings thus far and most recently, a question that keeps occurring to me is "What role does religion play throughout the stories of King Arthur?"

"By the faith I owe St. Peter, I'll not listen to your advice in this affair. Indeed, I'd deserve to be torn apart by horses if I did as you suggest. If he is seeking his honor, so do I seek mine; if he is seeking his renown, so do I see mine; if he is eager for battle, I am a hundred times more so." (Troyes, 160).

"The foreign maidens from the kingdom of King Arthur had all fasted three days and had gone barefoot in hairshirts so that God might give strength and courage to their knight, who was to do battle against his enemy on behalf of the captives. In like manner, the natives of this land prayed that God might give honor and victory in the battle to their lord." (Troyes, 161).